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Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 27 Aug 2012, 00:11
by daniel_reetz
LA2 wrote: The glass is plastic/plexiglass with a matte/frosted upper side, facing the cameras, which adds to the dimness of the resulting images. I understand the textile tent was added after the presentation at CES in January 2011, to avoid glare from lighting, and perhaps the matte glass was chosen for this reason too. (Can you think of another reason?)
This is a flaw common to the Book Liberator and the Book Saver. Both put the cameras very close to the platen. Unfortunately, this means the camera takes a picture of itself in the glass/plastic due to the laws of optics. You can diffuse it away, but at the cost of resolution. I'm surprised that the matte finish is on the upper side of the plexi. On the lower side, it would interfere less with imaging.

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 27 Aug 2012, 04:10
by deklerkt
It would interfere less with the image but all the more with the reflections of the camera or surroundings. I think this is what they wanted to avoid. I agree with LA that 140 euros is a low-end market price (as are most Ion products) and was certainly not expecting Royal Library quality but a lot better than what it produces. However, just like I want to get from A to B using a car, it doesn't mean I want to spend time on designing/building a car (I would not know where to start). Same with the Book Saver. It seemed an answer to my wish to digitize books without building one myself as I'm a DIY disaster.

I haven't tried a page on top of the platers but I guess focus would be as poor but hot spot might be less (on matte paper).

I was thinking whether an upside-down construction (book hinged over a V form with cameras and lights (properly positioned) underneath would give better results. It would still require to manually page flip the book by lifting it from the top.

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 27 Aug 2012, 04:37
by deklerkt
For better comparison, I put the same page as used with Book Saver on my flatbed HP 3770 scanner at 300 dpi and reduced the final JPG to "small medium size" in Photoshop (from 3 Mb to 1.9 MB) as not to take unneccessary forum space - it may make the comparision slightly unfair but if I can get this sort of picture from Book Saver, I'd be very happy.
flatbed HP3770.jpg

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 27 Aug 2012, 09:28
by LA2
I think we have three paths from here:
1) Are there any books or other artifacts that the current, unmodified Book Saver will capture with acceptable results? Perhaps it can be used as a light tent (a mini photo studio) for shooting stereo pictures of toys? Can we find any successful examples?
2) Are there any modifications we could do to the current Book Saver, as a component in a DIY project, to make it useful for book scanning? The bottom cradle is better than anything I could build on my own. It even folds into a flat unit, that I could bring to the library (which, unfortunately, the tent unit doesn't do). Can we find a way to modify the software inside the unit? Does it ever boot from the memory card?
3) Will Ion Audio present an improved version?

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 27 Aug 2012, 10:10
by deklerkt
The cradle is indeed nice but in the end it all boils down to proper cameras because that's what makes the photos/scans.
For stereo pictures it is not useful as it requires two flat objects to be photographed - not a 3D object that would be even more out of focus.

I understand that tomorrow (28 Aug 2012) there is a London meeting of Ion-audio people on this Book Saver and comments I sent back to Ion NL would be taken along. Whether that will produce something new/better/improved I don't know. The one thing that should be exchanged is the camera unit for something far better. The rest, though not perfect, I think might do the job.

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 27 Aug 2012, 11:13
by LA2
daniel_reetz wrote: Book Liberator and the Book Saver. Both put the cameras very close to the platen.
Do we have any documentation of what the correct geometry should be? Is there any geometry/CAD software for Linux that easily solves this?
The Book Saver uses a 120° book opening, i.e. the wings of the cradle are 30° from the table. The wings are 220 mm wide (from the V to the edge), the edges are 190 mm horizontally to each side of the symmetry center, and roughly 110 mm vertically above the V. The camera lenses are 80 mm apart, i.e. 40 mm horizontally from the symmetry center, 300 mm vertically above the V.
This is different from the Book Liberator (Book Ripper) that I have seen, which uses a 90° opening.
If I were to put a dark tent around it and a lamp between the camera lenses, pointing down toward the V, it would cause a reflexion in both cameras. This could be avoided if the book opening was less than 120° (how much actually?) and/or if the cameras were at a greater distance.

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 30 Aug 2012, 13:47
by rob
Dan has extensively studied the required geometry: http://diybookscanner.org/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=1149

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 30 Aug 2012, 23:09
by DrCheap
If that JPG is what the camera produces then I think, honestly, that the cameras in the current Ion Booksaver will never generate satisfactory results. One can tinker with lighting and angle and glass, but in the end the resolution is much too low and based on the sample images I think the sensor and lens quality are not up to the task. I tried a few different ways to process that JPG from the Book Saver and I could not get anything like even a remotely acceptable output -- not even just for the black and white text. There is so much fuzziness in the image that you either maul the letters or else you get terrible speckling and messiness all around the edges.

Even if we set aside design flaw questions of angle and distance, I just don't see the cameras succeeding in the task.

It seems to me a simple 90-degree bracket glue and 2-tripod solution has to be infinitely better. Something like this: http://diybookscanner.org/forum/viewtop ... f=14&t=401

Two cheap tripods, two cheap cameras, an even if you buy the USB trigger retail, it's probably right around the Ion Audio retail price.

I might also just say that assembling a kit is not that much work. Painting and sanding is a TON of work, but assembly goes very fast. If you did not care about painting and sanding, it's just a handful of hours really, especially if you have 2 drills (best if cordless). But that's a much more expensive endeavor, to be sure.

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 00:12
by LA2
On September 24, 2012, Konrad van den Bosch posted (http://www.iononline.nl/news/?p=98) that there would be a clearance sale of the Book Saver on October 6 through another website, debijenkorf.nl. I'm afraid that might be the last we hear of this product.

Re: Ionaudio Booksaver?

Posted: 18 Dec 2012, 10:06
by LA2
Today when I looked, it seems to be on sale again. Can anyone confirm this? Has the design changed?