new here, thinking about a book scanner

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bsbob
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new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by bsbob »

Not sure where to start on here.

I'm thinking about making a book scanner.

Two cameras. I saw the Canon Powershot a480 model. Those looks cheaper and interesting.

A book cradle. I can get glass plates from flatbed scanners sometime I think.


Looking for something cheap, small, portable. I don't think I'd have it sitting out all the time.

And something that's been "known." I don't want to experiment. If I spend $2-500 on it, I want it to work for sure.

Results -- A PDF of just the image of the page is fine. I don't care about having it look really nice or converting it with OCR.

I've got a computer with Windows 7. I can probably have someone's old laptop that could run Ubuntu if something needs to be Linux-based.

I've used a flatbed scanner for some things. 300pdi is ok on that for black and white. 600 for color.

Cheap, quick, known, simple, portable/easy to move in a room and set up. That's what I'm looking for.


Any advice?
bsbob
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by bsbob »

Looks useful...

http://www.diybookscanner.org/forum/vie ... f=14&t=280
master list

http://www.diybookscanner.org/forum/vie ... =14&t=2914
scanner made of tubes
-- Looks like something I could make.
-- I like the counterbalance aspect. I was wondering about sore arms.
-- I wonder if those cameras could connect directly to a computer to make it easier.
-- I also want the cameras to be clickable from the computer or something, like this infrared switch, so I don't have touch/bump the cameras. Dang... I was thinking the cameras might be easier *not* plugged into the computer, to get rid of wires, but this set up will use up camera batteries...
- I like how it comes apart in pieces. Might be easier to move that way.

I haven't investigated the software side. I guess I'd end up with a collection of pics from two cameras. I'd need software to put those together in the correct order...



Interesting for software...
http://www.diybookscanner.org/forum/vie ... =19&t=2835
Freeware Windows workflow: 40Mb 400pg OCR'd A4 book pdfs
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daniel_reetz
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by daniel_reetz »

Get the Powershot A1400, lots of the new development around here is based on it, and it's cheap.

As for a design, that's up to you - it depends on the size of the book you want to scan and the tools and skills you have. The Davidlandin build is recent and very well documented, although the lighting and covering situation isn't figured out yet.
bsbob
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by bsbob »

Cool. Thanks.

I still need to study out different models... of everything... camera, book scanner. The counterbalance one look makeable and nice and lazy for use -- saves arm and hand strain.


With the cameras... I saw a post about changing the firmware in them so they would work when connected to a computer. Maybe it was for controlling the picture taking, focusing, or copying pictures out. Or power, to avoid using batteries. If you change the firmware on the camera, can it be changed back later? Or once it's changed does it make the camera a 'DIY bookscanner camera only?'


I was also wondering -- on the counterbalance model -- if it's possible to put those cameras under the arms. Then make the tubing from left to right a larger tube with a smaller tube, so that everything could be widened. Larger book? Widen the whole thing a bit. Cameras on the bottom so the arms never get in the way.



How does that work on the camera/software side? Get the cameras. Change the firmware. Install software -- Does the 'standard' controlling/converting software work with Windows?

And then after that it's a matter of having a working physical set up... Book position (for various sizes, although I'm thinking of 'normal' books, nothing oversized, books that would all work with an 8.5x11 or 8.514 flatbed scanner)... Lighting to avoid reflections.... Glass plates that reflect as little as possible...

Ah... And then software to process those images to something else. I only want a PDF though. I don't care about OCR. A PDF of the image is great for me. File size would need to be reasonable, XXMB-ish. I don't mind multiple PDFs either, even if they're not nicely organized, as long as they're in order for the pages. ie If I've got pg.1-15 in one PDF, 2-200 in another, 200-end in another, that's fine.

I have Adobe Acrobat PRO X. I'm thinking that could be useful. With the PDFs I've made before, I never bothered to go back and edit or even combine PDFs. I scanned straight to PDF with a flatbed scanner. That process works well enough. I just want to speed it up.


Looks like it's 20 seconds per page at 300pdi on a flatbed scanner. That's what I want to beat, but everything I've seen points to cameras being much, much faster.
nafraf
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by nafraf »

bsbob wrote:If you change the firmware on the camera, can it be changed back later? Or once it's changed does it make the camera a 'DIY bookscanner camera only?'
CHDK supports several P&S Canon cameras, it does not modify firmware camera, it runs from SD-card without making any permanent change. http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ
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davidlandin
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by davidlandin »

bsbob wrote:I was also wondering -- on the counterbalance model -- if it's possible to put those cameras under the arms. Then make the tubing from left to right a larger tube with a smaller tube, so that everything could be widened. Larger book? Widen the whole thing a bit. Cameras on the bottom so the arms never get in the way.
Can you draw a rough sketch of that you have in mind with the cameras below the arms and the tubing left to right - it sounds like you may have a useful idea, but I can't picture it in my mind . If you can draw sketch and take a photo of it, you can then upload it here from your PC by using the "upload attachment " tab which is just below when you write your reply.

bsbob wrote: Looks like it's 20 seconds per page at 300pdi on a flatbed scanner. That's what I want to beat, but everything I've seen points to cameras being much, much faster.
I can get 1000 pages per hour on this with no real effort. Here is an introductory video

http://youtu.be/ne-h7FTMZBk

There are some other YouTube videos which give more details.

HOWEVER, you have to bear in mind that with camera images (in contrast to flatbeds) you will have to spend some time doing post-processing work. But there is very good software to help you do this, including YASW and Scan Tailor, both of which are free. These packages help you to clean up your images and get them crisp and clean for further use.

David Landin
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davidlandin
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by davidlandin »

daniel_reetz wrote:. The Davidlandin build is recent and very well documented, although the lighting and covering situation isn't figured out yet.
Actually, Daniel, the lighting and covering are good already. But I am trying out "non-reflective" acrylic for a new platen to cut down on small internal reflections from the slightly shiny black plastic tubes. I think the non-reflective acrylic will help, but if there are still any problems I'm planning to spray the black tubes with matt black spray paint. Black on black! :lol:

David Landin
bsbob
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by bsbob »

I wasn't really thinking on the 'cameras below the tubes' idea. Maybe it would still work.

Still wondering if anything spanning left-right could be made to expand tube. Larger tube in a smaller tube. That would change the distance on one of the cameras though I think. Possible to lengthen it all and then adjust the camera.


If the cameras were underneath...
The stuff that holds the platen would get in the way. But maybe that could be moved... Attached to that back tubes. Static. Cameras still static on the sides. So cameras and platen would still be frozen in place, distance unchanging.

Probably more distance between the camera tubes and the platen holders. A taller set up maybe.


Here's a quick pic of... something. Hacked together from the youtube video.


Just thinking... If the platen was held along each out edges and then had some joints it so it could still move and adjust to the book pages.... Then there's nothing on the left and right to block the cameras underneath and it will still be moveable. I guess that would be 'holding' the platen from the back instead of 'hanging' the platen from the arms. Probably more pressure on the platen. If the left and right edges of the platen were stuck lengthenwise into slits in tubes maybe that would work. Tubes take the pressure. Tubes are attached to the back securely but so the platen and platen holder tubes can still adjust. Slits in tubes hold the platen.
- Problem if the whole thing was made to stretch out left and right. The platen would have to be on the left or right side.
-- I wonder if it's possible to have tubes attached in the back.... And then have the platen lay on top of that. So if the tubes (and whole structure) were stretched farther left and right that the platen could just lay in on top of that.
-- And then the operator could grip the tubes instead of the platen glass. More wear on the tubes. Less risk of breaking the glass.
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davidlandin
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by davidlandin »

I am still not sure if I understand you. But if you want to have the cameras below the platen, there is a problem as these two pictures show.
Cameras below platen (platen raised)
Cameras below platen (platen raised)
CAMERAS BELOW PLATEN a.jpg (58.51 KiB) Viewed 10892 times
Cameras below platen (platen lowered)
Cameras below platen (platen lowered)
cAMERAS BELOW PLATEN 1.jpg (60.44 KiB) Viewed 10892 times
If you want to scan many different sized books, then I think the best plan would be to make a larger scanner (including a larger platen). Because a large platen can scan both smaller books as well as larger books.

I have been thinking of your idea of "telescoping" the right side into the left side, so you could widen or narrow the frame, but I don't know what problems that would solve. Perhaps you can explain some more.

David Landin
bsbob
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Re: new here, thinking about a book scanner

Post by bsbob »

Just popping in quickly...

A couple ideas...
Maybe different platens? Larger or smaller. If one size became an issue if the whole unit was expanded out left-right.

if it needed to be taller overall -- Larger pipes on the outside with smaller one tucked into that. Then use a bolt through both to adjust height on these legs like weight lifting or patio table poles have.
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